Thursday, May 3, 2012

Love All - Part 3

This discussion started here... and hopefully should end in this post :) 
Comments are, however, welcome... 

First of all, there is no point answring for something which i never said, i nevver said that peace can be achieved by making anybody the escape goat or taking anyones life. i never said "go around killing anyone whom you don't like"..this is what these inhumane guys do. I wonder people are ready to give their own life but are oppose killing of a murderer ??
The basic principle here is.. 'that' which is mine, I have full right to give it away.. however, you cannot and should not take away anything that does not belong to you.. that is transgressing.. be it an act of perpetuation or an act of justice..

1. With all due respect, in a way you have just insulted all people who have taken lives of intruders at border as well as given their life protecting you and me.
@ captain vikram batra/manoj pandey/anuj nayar/arun khetarpal : hard luck guys, you all died in vain. there is no point killing an intruder, you should have tried to teach them peace.
I do not in any way bilittle the supreme sacrifices made by these young lads... I don't know if all of the above belong to armed forces or some belong to police and support forces too? However, I'd like to add a name of a brave police man to this list, Ashok Kamte.. the top cop who was killed in Mumbai attacks.. the reason why I remember this name is, he used to be PC of our district Solapur. And during communal riots which erupted during his tenure, we actually saw this guy in action and he truely displayed the Indian spirit, not taking caste or religious sides. What I want to say is.. these brave people didn't had to die.. they would have been alive if we had the political class willing to solve the Kashmir problem.. and make sure that the intruders were not born in the first place.. I had high hopes from young politicians of both Kashmir and nations at large.. but they are just bozos running a circus.. that's the reason why I gave reference of the General of Netherlands in the TEDTalks

2. Just for records, The main problem i have with mahatma gandhi is that, he made whole of our ancestors and current generation too to believe that freedom is cheap,
(freedom never came cheap my dear friend.. don't call the sacrfices of those men 'nothing')
and it comes without shedding blood just by sitting and thinking that one day the oppressor would go back.
People have earned the freedom by giving their blood.. only difference is they gave their blood instead of shedding that of enemy.. making them realize that, they were doing a wrong thing.. nobody thought that the oppressors would go back simply like that.. they knew they would have to put their everything at stake to win the freedom.. by insisitng on the truth.. Satyagraha
Different topic but i believe (and there are many others) .. his teachings are basic problem which have alwys kept us suspended from air, we still think that we got azadi.. which actually is a mere transfer of power which still recognizes india as dominion of Britain, and hence the queen do not need visa to visit us till today also.
Com-on now, if the transfer of power to rule is not freedom than what is it? Yes, we are more racist than the others and do wag our tails infront of other gore-log.. haanji haanji karte hain.. and don't dictate terms.. but that's a different issue.. there is also something called as diplomatic relations.. out of which, if Queen doe not require a visa, I'm fine with it.. but I won't accept a classy ex-president of India being mistreated by foreign airport authorities - why didn't the political or general masses send a strong dislike message to this incident.. (BTW, SRK is a clown and he deserves it ;))
We say we think of ahimsa is the only way out, and on the other hand we are no#1 spender in defence procurements. The later way ofcourse is the practical way of survival.
That's precisely my question why are we going for arms, when our food, fuels are subsidized!! There are many socio-ecomoic issues at hand than defense, handle those first.. but then defence is a big-money business.. again we have to buy from other nations... the same nations who sell them to our neighbors.. I question this too.. why can't we build our own fighters or guns or missiles?? Why the hell do we have to import them?? And this 'fake' beefed up security only make certain nations rich.. while we stay below poverty line as a developing nation.. why??

3. "shedding human blood in anyway is same" i think is a totally wrong sentence, killing a innocent and killing the killer of that innocent is entirely different thing, and i have our own constitution to support my opinion which too allows capital punishments.
if you support LBGT movement, anti-curruption, liberation of women, women and child rights, education for all, anti-dowry and similar socio-judicial issues.. how can you support capital punishment.. it does not go with a sane societies' moral, ethical notions.. what are jails and rehabilitation centers for??
No, I'm not fine with Kasab enjoying biryani.. that bloody bastard should be cut to pieces and fed to pigeons on the Gateway of India..
but I'm speaking for a young mislead Kashmiri lad who is brainwashed and asked to commit crimes which he never intended to.. if not for the circumstances.. any person who is tortured to an extent that he sees no other solution but taking up gun is not at fault.. I'm sure out of 100 there could be more than 60-70 of them who truly feel that what they are doing is wrong.. and might want a second chance in life.. don't they deserve a chance to repent?? And set examples for others and become good citizens.. we need such people who can stop others from going astray.. this my dear friend can never be acheieve if you kill that fellow..
I know you'll ask me - don't the armed forces guys desreve a second chance.. I say they don't have to be in a place where they need a second chance..

4. Any faith/religion of this world does not teach violence, but each one has at length described ways to kill a miscreant who is against humanity and taking life of innocent people.Quran/Bible/Gita.. each one supports killing of a killer.
I know - how much good/bad Muslim I am and I'm sure many of my friends would actually admit that they no longer follow their own religions very strictly (Brahamins and Jains eating non-veg, Muslims smoking and consuming liquor, etc, etc).. even i doubt if they have any knowledge of it at all.. if only we were spiritual enough to follow our religions in all sincerity, there would not be any killings in the first place..
And the religious 'logic' of the punishments (atleast I know of Islam - beheading, stoning, lashes, amputation, etc) is to set an example for others - a reprimand - that others don't commit such crimes.. forget about God and His Laws.. we don't abide by the laws of the land and make a mockery of judiciary in its face.. who are you kiddin buddy?? if only we were good Hindus and Muslims along with being good Indians and good Humans at the same time.. the world would have been a better place..

5. I can give you links of 10001 videos of general/soldiers/politician saying that a WAR is needed. World and law of nature does not recognizes TED shows, war was/is/will be the truth. Infact if you read and follow Gen Patton's (much much more highly regarded and loved general of america than Gen. Peter ) teaching, you will feel like joining the army right now.
War may indeed be needed.. I don't question that.. but it cannot be the only solution to any problem.. it has to be combined with many other things that unfortunately people don't followup.. which leads to more animosity and tendency to seek revenge...

6. I hope by now you would have understood that I too do not support mindless violence, But please try to understand that you couldn't have read/replied to our discussion if your life and home wasn't guarded from some1 who believes in mindless killing. e.g. this TED video shot in Newyork ( m supposing) wouldn't have been done freely by its producer, if they would have lived under the fear that some plane might crash on to them by some men of osama bin laden.
Why is there a need to guard? Why is there this perpetual fear? Why is this mindless/mindfull killer coming after me? Who created him? Will killing me suffice his thirst? Is he really blood-thisrty or is he trying to put across a point? Are we not giving him the proper audience and the attention that he seeks? What is the probem with him? 
My dear friend there is no problem on the face of the earth that cannot be solved with love, understanding, sympathy,mutual-respect and accomodating few things, discounting few and compromising few.. what is uncompromisable is, you cannot forcibly take away something that I wouldn't want to give..

7. America recognized the need to eliminate the bad guys for saving the good guys, passes patriot law, attacked al-quaida, result : less lives lost to terrorism. on the other hand, we are thinking that the bad guys will get a heart change and follow the path of ahimsa... result : more lives lost and getting lost than any other country.
How many mindless wars has America waged! And how many of their own soldiers they lost. How many Americans actually support these wars... ordinary Americans like ordinary Indians like you and me. And do you really think that they were only driven by this War on Terror? What about the economics of War? What about the money/oil-motives behind the wars? If it were such a case.. why don't americans attack saudi arabia when most of the terrorists are arabs.. why Iraq, Afghanistan.. why not Pakistan?? Saudi Arabia is still in the good books and is producing oil for American consumers.. Iraq and Afganistan were just easy targets that they could win.. Pakistan never figures in their business plans.. nevertheless it is a good market for F16s.. so they just keep them as a strategic ally.. and they very convinently stayed away from the 'Arab Springs' revolutions..
While Americans can afford to hunt a man down for 10-15 years.. we are just happy feeding 
biryani to the only surviving terrorist of the Mumbai Killings, who was captured 'red'-handed... shame on us.. and that is certainly not the essence and spirit of Justice!! 
On the other hand, we also really cannot afford to wage an 'all-out-war'.. we are living in a nuclear age.. war is certainly not an option..

8. There can never be a consensus among everyone for everything present on this planet, ya you still are free to try and bring every one under one roof. You are absolutely free to follow absolute ahimsa, but I would still be happy and glad to kill the bad guy who is just about to kill you while you are teaching peace to people, coz like me, they would never answer your "peace for all- hate nobody" call by words.
Who is this bad guy? Was he born bad? Who made him bad? Is he really bad? Am I also a reason why he turned bad? I would be glad to die trying to find the goodness in him and removing the evil out of him.. rather than be living just because I pulled the trigger first.. 'they would never answer your call by words' is an assumption that you are making.. who knows he would be just waiting for someone to come forth and ask him to stop.

9. Yes there are many people who go around killing for the sake of getting 72 virgins in heaven, if you wish u can check, 100s of bombers are those who killed people for jannat, leaving behind their children and wives alone to face this world. Do you think people who bombed mumbai, al-quaida chief, david coleman headly do not have family and money to eat food two times a day?? Yes you are correct, these men's greed can't be fulfilled ..... till they are alive.
You missed the main point here... in addition to family, food, shelter I mentioned a very very important thing - 'peace of mind'.. if only our worldly needs and more importantly, spiritual needs are fulfilled, no one would go against the very spirit of each religion - that the human life is valuable.. not just valuable but sacred.. and BTW there are many who don't do it for 72virgins.. they just seek revenge of the wrong doings of others.. or want to make it to the headlines!!!

10. Any english speaking person, i believe would agree that, The above 9 points in no way teaches crazy violence, but self defence and need to understand that, these bloody scum are not even reading/listening any peace calls, you can fight for their human rights only till the day your own house and your life is at their target, coz after that one more peace lover would be less, and they will target their next sympathizer who thinks they should be treated as humans. I have made my choice to keep killing and support killing any 'animal' who thinks that he can take a innocent life at his will.
You cannot drive a person to craziness and then create circumstances that forces him to pick weapons against you.. and then kill him in the name of self defence..
You have to take corrective action, which prevents the formation of a 'terrorist' in the first place.. rather than 'eliminating' him after he has gone beyond any reasoning and has become a mad dog who can only be shot at without any mercy or sympathy...
I do believe that human life is sacred and no one should waste such a divine energy to promote hatred, when love and persistence given a chance can solve the most complex problems of mankind...


Abhinav Singh's reply to the above post on FB - he could not add it in comments due to some technical problem:

1. World peace, everyone wants no one gets (Ref: History till date) It is really very nice to hear and dream about a day when everyone will be at peace and no one will be committing genocide or killing at smaller level. You are absolutely free to take path of ahimsa and not hurt anyone, in fact it should be applauded. But I am sorry to break this to you that no killer or terrorist is going to stop just because you or 100 others have taken up resolve not to hurt any other human. I mean how can one even think that? As a individual you took up ‘not to kill anyone’, person B took up ‘I will kill’, no haave a look at this idea, just because you are ahimsawadi, and the sane society applauds your choice, what on earth would he change his mind?? I hope you are getting my point, for example, simply thinking that everyone would become good won’t do, because in some other’s dictionary, your ahimsawad is stupidity and he thinks that ultimate truth is getting all people converted to a particular religion, those who don’t agree with him should be killed. He thinks that way; he thinks that his birth is for that purpose only. How on earth can you say that what he is thinking is wrong?? Just because you are more educated and peace loving doesn’t give you the right to tell whole world that what you are saying is right. So, the point is the one who is bad guy for you would be the good guy in his eyes as well as his comrades. I hope by now you have understood that What you think is wrong may not be wrong for him, so logically it’s ok in a way that he is going ahead with his resolve of killing people. Now, its established that world peace cannot be attained, and he is going to kill some-one, what can be attained is self defence from this guy (please not we consider him bad, in his eyes he is doing very good work )enforcement of law under the boundary of our very nation known as constitution and Law of land, anybody whatever his state of mind, personal resolve or problem may be, shouldn’t be allowed to break law of land, If law sends him to jail its fine, if law says that a rapist and killer of a 20 year old girl (Hinjewadi’s very own example) should be sent to gallows instead of being given ‘another chance of leading good life’ then be it, they should be killed. Likewise, I never said that a terrorist who has surrendered should be killed, but if he hasn’t then surely they should be, as they are being by our troops ( good bless our troop, because of whom we sit in our cozy rooms and debate at our will, well protected from that terrorist) 

2. Sacrifice by troops: they are not kids who were sent in army by parents, they had very good reasoning sense and resolve, if any person is intruding in my country to cause mayhem and take lives of people of our country, or even just crossing the border, person A prefers to have him killed, you might hold otherwise view, but you can't say that person A is wrong just because a human life is getting lost.
How can you say that they hadn't had to die, or it was unwise of them to choose to die? Sir, they chose to keep themselves in front of a blazing gun rather than letting an oppressor put a single step inside their country.
Kamte Sir was a great soul indeed; he worked towards betterment of society and harmony between religions. Its political class which is largely responsible for religion based clashes. Total 100% Agreed, but what was the point in citing his example, where did i said that Ashok kamte wasn't a good person?? I too endorse your views about him.

3. Kasab's fine example : thank you for mentioning that you wish to have him cut into pieces... just like you consider his crime so worse that you thing that he doesn't deserve to live, I consider scenarists and any random killer good enough to be killed, what’s wrong in that ?? its not written anywhere that only the person that you think should get killed. Right? In fact I don't even say that consider what I say, my point is following law of land, if our constitution says a Maoist holding a gun should be arrested and a Maoist firing a gun should be neutralized then be it. If all of us start announce our justice, then where is the end?? How will justice be delivered?? I never said that killed every criminal, happily deal with them with jails and other means whatever our law says. A law abiding citizen is not only the one who do not commit crime, but also its the one who helps in prosecuting the one who has crossed the line of law (here law represents what our country says, you can't talk about universal understanding on law till we have boundaries between countries, and that’s why I had said that I am more interested in solving 'today's' problem and saving an innocent life today.

4. This reminds me, 'spirit of justice’... Totally awesome point, if I may recall, you had said that supreme thing to do is forgiving someone. Don’t you think by forgiving each and everyone we will lose on spirit of justice?? If I start saying that "kasab too is a mere misguided boy, give him a second chance", by law of ahimsa and solving all problems with talk and love, I am right, but will that be right?? Would a parent forgive him, whose 6 year old child was killed on that horrible night?? Would it do justice to Maj. Unnikrishnan's sacrifice??

5. I never said that stone pelting youths should be killed instead of being jailed, i mentioned very clearly that only killer/potential killer (that’s why i said many times, "murder happy freaks" should be killed.

6. Right to speech, and talks on every issue: Though not related to my 1st post, but very important issue, thanks for bringing this up.
I am not okay with talks on every issue. Why?? Because, our constitution clearly mentions that there can be no talks when national integrity is at stake. I will in my capacity and as a citizen of India, should never allow anyone to preach things which leads to sedition. I mean no one negotiates about his mother, how can some idiots, who have scared and thrown kashmiri pandits out of their homes can sit and negotiate about my mother (India, for me is not just piece of land). Totally not done sir, there are many things which cannot / should not be solved by sitting across a table. No audience and stage would be provided to anyone who doesn't have "peace of mind" because of India being in Kashmir. No sympathy, mutual-respect and not even a single thing will be accommodated to give them a piece of my mother.

7. You sir, are ready to give even your life to give a person his peace of mind so that he stops killing people. God bless you, but sorry I do not endorse your action, I would rather like to put a bullet in head of a Terrorist and give him the "peace of mind" which he deserves. 
I don't endorse killing of every Pakistan lover (as they are in present tense not killing anyone) present in Kashmir, but they should surely be thrown in pakistan, and the ones who thinks that he can scare all Indians like they did to handful of peace loving kashmiri pandits, by a blazing gun, should be shot in head twice (once for us, once for the kashmiri pundits his fellow comrades killed decade back).

8. I DO NOT support America’s neither mindless wars, nor do I advocate of their foreign policy, No country have all citizens’ content and happy, I only admire their resolve to not let any foreigner come and kill at his will. Also, I said having arsenal is necessary, bought by outside or made inside our country isn’t of that much importance. (though I support your view that we should have more weapons made by ourselves to defend ourselves) 

Conclusion of my views : 
A. Criminal mentality can’t be stopped and erased from the face of the earth. What we can do is defending ourselves from criminals and deal with them according to law of land. If he threat to our existence, he should be killed (If his life is precious, so is mine, I am totally allowed to defend mind, Nature’s simple law)
B. Nation and national integrity comes above and beyond anything else, there can’t / shouldn’t be any talk over that whatever may be the case. Being a peace loving coutry we shall never invade any other’s land (and we have never done that) But, no amount of bloodshed shall stop us from defending even a square centimeter of our country. There is no point in living whole life and die on sick bed when you never felt like dying for a cause and what better can be a cause than nation and our people.

Jai Hind


  1. I am not on Facebook, so I do not know how the discussion started, but the format and tone of your blog post reminded me of my own "To Frank" and "To Shane" posts at

    1. Thanks Micky for stopping by and sharing the links to your blog.. will go thru them as and when time permits - they do sound interesting :)